Sex In The Marital Bed – The Ultimate Betrayal?

You are meeting with your affair partner for sexual acrobatics. They can’t host in their dwelling due to lack of privacy and neither of you want to shell out for a hotel at the moment. You can always crumple into a vehicle and have at it like teenagers… or you can take them back to your place and enjoy them in the comfort of your own home. This is the reality for many couples: where is the easiest and most secure place to get our rocks off?

At first, you’ll see that the bedroom and by proxy the martial bed is nothing more than a location to enjoy each others company on. What’s wrong with using what is at your disposal? What could possibly be conveyed psychologically to your spouse if you were to undertake the deed with a stranger in your shared home, in your shared space?

To your family, the house is the gathering place for your hearts. You smile there, you cry there, you celebrate victories and you squirrel away belongings that identify who you are within those walls. You’re vulnerable there. You close your eyes and hope to wake there. All these things and you are now stealthily leading an “other” right under the threshold and smack dab into the cradle of the relationship. At least, this is how your spouse will view this act of consummation.

But, I hear you query, it’s my space too! And it is. You have put just as much heart and soul into this abode as all else in your family unit. You should be able to use it as you see fit. Everyone should be able to use it as they see fit – and they will. Your sons and daughters will sneak in their lovers, your spouse will surreptitiously invite ‘a friend’ over whenever you are out of town, and you… well, you will invite your new love.

Alas, the marital bed. Your spouse lays their head just on that pillow there. Their scent is wrapped into those sheets. The nightstand contains their glasses or their night cream. Maybe there is even a book laid out, a page folded where they’d stopped reading the night previous. Photos may line walls. Clothes haphazardly draped in the rush of a pre-dawn schedule. The intimacy is ripe. The personal space is evident.

Your spouse lays their head just on that pillow there. Their scent is wrapped into those sheets

This is where you will make love. Fornicate. Engage in carnal delights that you had forgotten in the 10, 20, 30 years of your relationship. With someone your spouse may or may not know. With someone you may or may not know all that well, either. It does and doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because the mattress is just a mattress, the sheets just sheets, the pillows just pillows. Instruments are all they are. Just tools to get the job done. It does matter because this is the biggest “Fuck You” that one can say to their marriage, even if they don’t believe it.

A cursory look online suggests that betrayed spouses on the whole consider martial home sex to be beyond the pale, while the act of ‘fucking’ in the marital bed is so offensive that it just about signs the divorce papers itself. Betrayed wives, in particular, seem to be vengeful when this has been revealed as the lust lair. Betrayed husbands feel cuckolded by the invasion of not only another man releasing inside their woman but the crassness of him ‘at home’ in his domain.

For some affair partners, having sex in the marital bed is the biggest turn-on precisely because it involves completely taking the affair partner from the spouse. They want the energy of the session to intimidate the unwitting partner. For the straying partner, it symbolizes how removed they are from the vows they’ve undertaken and for the willing partner, it can be a greater aphrodisiac than drugs. You are, in essence, replacing the unique connection your partner has with their spouse. The big deal about marriage is “us against the world”. For better or worse. Til death, not a failing of duty, do us part.

This isn’t to warn you away from bringing your affair partner into your home. To you the bed may be nothing but a functional piece of furniture. To your affair partner, it may just be a place that you can both safely bump your hips. Be forewarned that to your spouse it will be a direct assault onto their very being. It isn’t uncommon for marital beds to become an issue in therapy or settlements – destroy it, toss it, replace it. As a kicker, some wives and husband demand a new home completely untainted by the groin gestures.

You’re already in an affair. Consider your risks and choose wisely. If a D-Day ever comes, would you be able to handle the fallout from a marital bed revelation? If you’re not fully prepared to accept an acrimonious divorce, maybe you should rethink that inability to shell out for the hotel room. If you’re beyond the point of no return, open the door and enjoy yourselves.

If you were having an affair, would your marital bed be off limits?

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About tallgirl

I am a single woman involved with a married man.. A typical setting provided our introduction: Work. Over time, the two of us discovered we had more shared, specific interests than usual for a couple with age separating them. We were never going to be run-of-the-mill: this coupling is about possession. Our affair is like watching two assassins meeting for coffee; each knows who and what the other is, but chooses to forget for the sake of the pleasure of their companionship.

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114 Responses to Sex In The Marital Bed – The Ultimate Betrayal?

  1. kentshakespeare January 22, 2013 at 4:40 am #

    Done it and it turned both of us on. I did not feel any extra sense of guilt at all. However, I agree that if it came out that the spouse would feel an extra level of betrayal. Of course, I have no idea why anyone would ever tell his spouse this info except to slide the metaphorical knife in for some horrible reason. If the affair comes to light, there should be no reason to share this info.

  2. whyohwhy2012 January 25, 2013 at 4:32 pm #

    I believe that not only is my martial bed off limits, but so is my house. How can a person show so little respect to a person that they married and vowed to love in sickness and health? Both spouse have worked so hard to make what is basicly wood and brick into a home filled with food, children and safety. Please take this into account next time the “turn on” takes you to the APs/Your house. Get a motel or have sex in the car for all I care, just stay the heck out of my house!!!!!

    • Cheatersarecowards January 25, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

      Here is a novel idea kentshakespeare and whyohwhy2012:
      Divorce your spouses before you cheat you two tools!!! It is despicable to have an affair(s) and betray your spouses and families!! But to defile your home and marital bed kentshakespeare???? Sick and disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself and I hope when your spouse finds out about your atrocious behavior you get whacked with a 2X4 in the divorce courts. Selfish narcissist.

      • whyohwhy2012 January 29, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

        Please don’t include me as a WW. I have never cheated…my husband did…tool indeed.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 26, 2013 at 5:08 am #

      Sorry whyohwhy 2012, I misunderstood the context of your post. I thought you were against affairs in your house, but for affairs in general. I apologize for addressing you in my reply to kentshakespeare.

      • whyohwhy2012 January 29, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

        Sorry missed the apology. And you are right….I am not for affairs. I am on the stay and be faithful side or get a divorce. But don’t disrespect me one way or the other.

    • David January 28, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

      People who have affairs are mentally and emotional disturbed.

      Cheaters are sick insecure individuals who derive pleasure out of doing something forbidden and dirty and shoving it in their partner’s face.

      Some cheater said, don’t tell the spouse if caught, but they WILL find out.

      I could smell the other man driving my car and in my bed.

      I divorced my wife, post haste after hiring a detective to catch her.

      I wouldn’t even talk to her except through my attorney.

      Last I heard my wife is living in a trailer park.

  3. tallgirl January 26, 2013 at 12:10 am #

    @ Cheatersarecowards whyohwhy was actually agreeing with you, and afaik is not in an affair but a betrayed spouse.

    Calling all cheaters narcissists is a bit broad based. Most wouldn’t match up to a 1/4 the criteria necessary for an NPD diagnosis. More often than not I’ve found most people engaged in an affair are wounded, if anything. Not thrillseekers nor maliciously purposed – just wounded from neglect, history, spousal illness, emotional abuse…you name it. Sure, it’s easy to say “Just divorce!” but you cannot lead a horse to water – the horse has to find their path.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 26, 2013 at 5:04 am #

      Hi tall girl,
      Cheating is indeed selfish and displays huge narcissisism on the cheater’s part. To put one’s desire’s before the wellbeing of spouse by introducing an unknown third party is betraying your spouse and family in the worst possible manner. It puts them through severe emotional abuse and the betrayed spouse is often emotionally abandoned, abused, and mindf*cked with during the affair because the cheater is all about keeping the setup “as is”. Not to nention putting the spouse’s health sndvlufe at risk by exposing them to STD’s. What setup sm I talking about?? A side dish to play around with while having the security of home life. It is bullshit.
      If the cheater is seriously unhappy because of a spousal illness, or are wounded in any way does NOT give someone a free pass to lie, sneak, cheat, and steal behind their spouse’s or family’s back. Be upfront and honest with the spouse about banging people outside the marriage, or get the hell out of the marriage. If the cheater needs to develop some inner coping skills, seek counseling. It really is that simple. Would you say it would be okay for a spouse to physically abuse another? I mean they are wounded.. Hell no!!!! There are many forms of abuse and cheating IS abuse. The fallout the betrayed spouse endures in the aftermath is horrendous. Selfish and narcissistic. You do not have to be diagnosed with NPD to behave in selfish, narcissistic ways, tall girl.

      • tallgirl January 26, 2013 at 5:18 pm #

        You do see that it is likely that a wayward spouse has been through the grist mill of emotional abuse with their own betrayed spouse? I’m not saying cheating is not selfish – but most of our actions as humans are by nature selfish. Degrees of selfishness. Having an orgasm without aiding your spouse to have theirs – seen as selfish? Cutting in line in front of someone else at the store because you’re in a bigger hurry – seen as selfish? Degrees of selfishness.

        Just like in any relationship, problems begin as slights. Slights build into swaths of issues carving cliffs into the relationship. Cliffs that slowly erupt into volcanoes of detachment. Volcanoes that supernova into affairs or divorce or something else altogether.

        I don’t think most people engaged in an affair believe they were given a free pass at all. Many seem to have agonized, have been waving white flags begging spouses to work on issues for some time – some don’t think there’s anything wrong with how the marriage is progressing, and thus see fit to continue on as usual. Some change for a short time, then revert to old behaviors as soon as the goal is achieved. Some are in it to win it and those marriages thrive.

        Basically, look at what an enormous industry couples counseling is. Seriously. Everyone’s hurting. Everyone’s asking to put spice back in their relationship, or to reboot their marriage, or to change a long-standing behavior they dislike in their partner, or whatever. Huge market for it. But what is all of it doing, in the end? Is it helping? If it was helping, would the industry keep booming every year? Nope, if we had any answers that worked, everyone would be good as gold, right? Right.

        If a spouse felt they could be upfront and honest… there’s the key. These are marriages in which the breakdown has become so severe they can’t admit they need more and may know that if they do nothing will change. They’re afraid to rock the boat and demand more. They may even realize it is fruitless to want more – it’s not going to happen.

        There are plenty of relationships where people are told “it was an accident” after someone loses their temper and beats on the other person once. Plenty of blind eyes turned. Plenty of people who say “That’s just how marriage is, what did you do to tick them off?”. Plenty of reproductive coercion, plenty of mental neglect, plenty of every bad thing – INDIFFERENCE? Yes, broad spectrum abuses. And people are told to stick it out, for religion, for duty, for family, for finances, for respect… and then what?

        It’s an explanation of what drives many people to an affair. All those little things roll into a big thing and then a person will look for any shred of joy they can find. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, it just makes it exist.

        In an ideal world, people who see no way out would leave their partners. In an ideal world, that would always be possible. In an ideal world, it wouldn’t be seen as a failure to not hold a marriage together. None of us live in an ideal world. We all make our way through it as best as we can, just like the flawed humans we are.

        • Cheatersarecowards January 26, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

          Thanks for the word salad tall girl, but I already had lunch.. And just lost my lunch after reading your post on reasons why you justify people having affairs.
          Affairs ARE wrong through and through morally, ethically, and in some states/countries, legally. No person, no marriage, and no relationship can force or drive another person to cheat. This is of the person’s choosing and that person becomes a cheater, liar, sneak, and thief to get their jollies. All while choosing to NOT deal with the real problems in the relationship/marriage. Do you think cheaters are the only people that feel unhappy, empty, and at a loss in a marriage/relationship that needs help? Do you think that the person who has been betrayed is okay with a stagnant relationship? Yet, these people choose NOT to CHEAT on their spouses and families. The answer is not to cheat. It is a bullshit and weak response to say “in an ideal world”…. Do you presume that marriage is all fun and games? For the people that remained faithful and have been married for many years, would you say they “live in an ideal world” ? Or these couples stuck together through the storms of life and marriage? They CHOSE to HONOR and LIVE their vows even when they did not FEEL like it. Living those vows takes work and a conscious commitment from both parties. If the person takes the cowardly way if coping with the turbulent times in a marriage by cheating, then the marriage contract has been severed. It is up to the betrayed spouse what they want to do from there. Cheaters should be grateful that the betrayed spouse gives them the opportunity to work on the marriage. Sometimes the cheater chooses to leave the betrayed spouse for AP, but comes back after “realizing” what a mistake it was to cheat. Sometimes cheaters confess to having an affair(s), I must say this is a more respectable way of dealing with the aftermath if their actions. However, more often than not, it is the betrayed spouses that ends up listening to their instincts and starts investigating only to discover the horrible truth. All the time, emotional investment, money, and love the cheater could have been giving to the marriage and family, they are throwing it away in some AP. How can any marriage be saved with that behavior going on? Not to mention the STDs the cheater is exposing his spouse to.. “Happy birthday honey!!! Thought I’d give you chlamydia for your big day!! ”
          There ARE very good therapists out there that would provide couples that need insight into how to start up a stagnant marriage/relationship. Sex therapists, mental health professionals that could also provide individual counseling to those that might be dealing with issue from childhood that were never dealt with that could be hurting the person and relationship.
          Though there are bad professionals out there, don’t let that stop you from seeking out a good one.
          So don’t spout some BS about selfish nature and shit. We also have a higher nature that helps rise above are animal nature.. Something called a moral compass, reason, and intellect… Use them, they will serve you well.

          • tallgirl January 26, 2013 at 10:47 pm #

            Good way to shut down a discussion – word salad. Thanks. We fool ourselves into believing we have a higher nature. We aspire to have a higher nature, but we won’t achieve it until we’re no more. Humanity constantly evolves. Since you’re not interested in that side of things, what are you interested in? Just your own pain?

            You look at this topic as though very good therapists and resources are always available in every area, always financially possible and always the best defense against error. A bit of a privileged mindset. It’s woefully ignorant to suppose it’s the only answer or the best answer or the most possible answer. Just as it would be woefully ignorant to believe an affair is the only answer, the best answer or the most easily possible answer.

            Living miserably but faithfully! is real honorable. I’ve been there. I really look up to those beacons of hope, let me tell you. You know who I look up to? People who find their path and take it. Sometimes it takes them through painful journeys, like an affair. Sometimes it takes them through penniless existences where they give up everything material to follow a dream. Those are the people I look up to. Not people who settle. No slam on those not yet there, but… there you are.

            Why so many people believe that those undertaking the majority of affairs are going to bring back horrendous diseases to their spouse is beyond me. More than you’d believe, people are sane enough to exchange medical information, vetted through STD tests and results. Not all affairs are alike (nor even physical!), not all cheaters are hooking up with total strangers, not all is as disgusting as it has been built to be. I don’t know your own story? But that’s definitely not how many adults have undertaken their planned affairs.

            Ah yes, the moral compass. Not everyone follows the same codes and scripts and definitions as everyone else. Great source of strife in the world as a result. What is “normal”, what are social norms, what are ethics, what are the rights laws and ways to live. Really out there stuff. I’m sure one day we’ll all come to agree exactly on what and who and how and where we should act and think and behave like. Until then…

            Nothing in life is fun and games. Marriage, work, school, any sort of human interaction: Nothing Is Easy. It Is All A Journey. There Will Be Joy And Pain And Loss and Gain. Get a helmet, we’ll all need it.

            You know the first crack in a relationship? That first moment you realize this other person is not who you began your love with? That where it all starts to fall apart. Some choose to stay faithfully to the end, some choose to stay but stray, some choose to leave and never look back.

            Everything’s a choice. The BS has a choice, but they often stay. Why? Because they love or because they fear? You tell me, why do they stay? Selfishness. Fear. Following the tenets of their faith, their society, their personal demons. They only leave when they get brave. Just like cheaters. They only leave when they get brave.

        • Nottelling January 26, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

          Well said TALLGIRL.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 26, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

            Your spouse will find out in time what you are not telling, Nottelling.. And wonder how you will deal with the fall-out.

          • David January 28, 2013 at 4:54 pm #


            People who CHOOSE not to cheat when there are rough spots in a marriage do hold a higher nature.

            And, also hold the higher moral ground, in most societies and in almost all religions.

            If you are so happy and content with your lying and deceptions and refusal to work on your marriage rather than cheat, why are you trying so hard to convince yourself with your posts?

            Most people cheat because they are horny. Admit it.

            You wanted some strange and little be extra somethin’ somethin’ you feel entitled to it.

            If your marriage is miserable, it’s really easy to get a divorce.

            You used the words “woefully ignorant. Well, don’t you think, those words fit the attempts some here make to show cheater as wounded victims or noble in some way

            gimmee a break.

            I can see that your miserable Tallgirl. Cheating is making you miserable.

            Save yourself, confess to your husband and put your big girl panties on and muster the courage to ask for a divorce.

        • David January 28, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

          Cheaters are more than flawed human beings, tall girl.

          They are flawed, and they are cowardly.

          Too afraid to leave a spouse or too selfish because they don’t want to give up their lifestyle.

          I don’t know, tallgirl. Is an orgasm really all that important to you.

          If it’s love you are looking for and not just the thrill of dirty sex, than divorce.

          It really really really is that simple.

          Lying, and stealing from your spouse is not the answer. I know you know that and that is why you protest so much.

    • David January 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm #


      A truly wounded person gains empathy from their wounds and refuses to wound others.

      If claiming you cheat because your husband is awful or you are wounded makes you feel better about yourself, that is even sadder.

      Why not just admit you cheat because you are horny.

      Be honest. It’s a lot more admirable.

      But I agree, not all cheaters have NPD, why give them that excuse.

      Most cheaters are just selfish, self absorbed and HORNY.

  4. Cheatersarecowards January 26, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

    Seeing as that it is the 21st century, we don’t have to “live in an ideal world” to get a divorce today. Divorce is not taboo as it once was years ago. And it is much easier to get one now. So to most people today, they are not looked upon by others as failures if they choose to get a divorce if their marriage ends. And though most people feel the sadness and grieving of the emotional upheaval a divorce brings, NOTHING is worse than discovering your spouse cut you deeply down to your very soul. The overwhelming grief, pain, sadness, anger, and PTSD is worse than if your spouse had died. And many couples end up divorcing in the aftermath in the affair. Many try to give the cheating spouse another chance or chances, only to find out the reconciliation was false. The affair(s) went underground. And the divorce is bitter. There are couples that end up reconciling and have a different marriage. But the fact remains that your spouse cheated on you and you have to live with that fact for the rest of the marriage. In order for there to be a true reconciliation, the cheater must completely understand and come to grips with the pain they inflicted on their spouse. They must make and live the commitment to do whatever possible to help their spouse through the pain. The cheater and betrayed must work together.
    However, as this works for some couples, down the road the cheater does cheat again.. And the betrayed spouse is hurting that much more as they wasted so many years if their youth with the cheater. All those years and they are right back there again. But some too old to start over.
    So all around cheating is cowardly, abusive, and everyone loses around. Divorce bad fire the cheating occurs if there is NO possible way to save the marriage. It is less traumatizing for all involved.

    • tallgirl January 26, 2013 at 11:02 pm #

      Actually, yes. Divorce is still frowned upon in many cultures and religions. It’s also frowned upon because of the ever sacred “it’ll ruin the kids”. It’s also frowned upon because of what people feel about themselves – what, you mean I can’t even cut it in a relationship – and announcing their failures publicly considering it’s a legal arrangement? Divorce drags out the property and the money and the things and cuts them into unequal pieces and that’s displeasing to many people.

      You know, selfishness. On all sides.

      There doesn’t seem to be “true” reconciliation for people who undertake long term affairs. Not enough case studies to convince me, at least. I think from all I’ve read on both BS forums and WS forums is that the lingering resentment remains, and the original issues, and something breaks farther down the road… and maybe the separate and maybe they don’t. By that time, they are up there in years and are holding onto their marriage because it’s too late, as you said. Too late to start again.

      And again, affairs where things like sex in the marital home/bed occur? It seems obvious the marriage is all but done. Which is what the article was about.

      Maybe you should sign up on the forum, Cheatersarecowards, and elict more impact with your posts. Off into the blog section seems far too timid an area. I think we’d benefit more from your views if you’d share them there, too.

    • David January 28, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

      Cheaters don’t want a divorce. They want some strange on the side.

      Never reconcile with a cheater. Once a cheater always a cheater.

      • tiffdarne February 1, 2013 at 12:39 pm #

        Best thing I ever did was have an affair……….my husband is so happy with his NEW and improved wife, I love him more than I did before, AND I have the love and attention of two men. What a lucky girl I am!!! Try it you’ll like it, you are a human, right?

    • pandorabox January 29, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

      Reading all those comments I start having serious doubts who is higher human being, while TG is highly eloquent and reasons logically, 2 of you are abusive and at some points vulgar. Hmmm……

      Both of you obviously failed your marriages as they ended with A. Wasn’t is selfish to make your spouse so miserable that they cheated?
      As Tallgirl mentioned so many of us in A tried to fix marriages for many years, begged, cried, suffered until we did wave white flag. The other half would only put an effort in for a day or a month at best. Only when seriously threatened with marriage being over. Selfishly getting back what they like , the marriage which gives him/ her stability ans security. Forget about the void their partner feels. We suffered a lot, 7 years in my case, 7 years of abandonment, hurt, loneliness. 7 years of every effort to get my marriage work.

      Who is selfish here?

      I don’t think both of you have any rights to comment on affairs until you finally stop being NARCISSISTS, yes , you reading right, and admit that it takes 2 to screw your marriage. Until you ready to take some responsibility, your opinions are just coming from your hurt ego. We may be cheaters but we are honest to ourselves. Something you miss in your life.

      • Administrator January 29, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

        >>>>>>you finally stop being NARCISSISTS

        That actually made me burst out laughing. Based on what I have read on the forums you might actually be the most narcissistic person I have ever come across.

        • pandorabox January 30, 2013 at 7:37 am #

          You have crush on me or something? Don’t you think it’s a bit unprofessional for administrator to harass his own board member?

          • Administrator January 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

            I call it the way I see it and you are the very definition of narcissistic. And that is me being kind in my interpretation of you.

      • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

        Good job on showing complete ignorance all around.
        If you read my earlier posts, I never said that one party in a marriage is at fault when it stagnant , stale, or unhappy. Marriage/relatiobships are a two-way street. Sometimes 50/50. Sometimes 90/10. I don’t care how miserable a marriage is. Cheating is NEVER justified. Period. End of story. No marriage, no relationship, no person forces a person to cheat. The CHEATER CHOOSES to lie, cheat, and steal.
        If the relationship is beyond repair: leave. If the marriage is over: file for divorce. If if it has hope of repair, by all means use every resource available aka therapy, etc. to help save it. Cheating??? Cowardly. No excuse no reason for cheating.

      • David January 29, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

        Trust me Pandora’s box. My wife was far from miserable. She even admits it now that we are divorced.

        She cried so hard she hiccuped when the papers were finalized.

        She kept saying I can’t believe this is happening. I love you, I never meant to hurt you, you always treated me good. I will never find anyone as good as you. PLEASE PLEASE, i want to work on things.

        And you know what, after I gave her a second chance and I then soon learned the slut was still allowing the sleazy lazy, out of work other man to shoot cream pies into her without using a condom and then come home and have sex with me, I finally realized she was right.

        SHE WILL NEVER FIND ANYONE AS GOOD AS ME, and likely no one even good, if they bother to read the divorce papers.

        Hmmm interesting name, Pandora’s box. Are you a delusional cheater, too. Or, just cheating another woman by dating her husband.

        Hmm either one or both is abusive don’t you think. Aren’t you ashamed of yourself or are you shameless.

        Yes, I am angry. I think I have a right to be. I think society and most religions agree with me.

        I doubt they would take your side, Pandora, nor your box’s side.

        But I digress.

        You assume the marriage was screwed up. Do your homework honey. If you read, I am assuming you can read, you will see that the majority of affairs happen in happy marriages.

        The cheater is usually just selfish, self absorbed and too immature to cope with the normal ups and downs of a marriage or better yet, they live in a fairy world where all marriages are perfect and that unrealistic attitude is how they justify cheating.

        I have been traumatized by being cheated on, that is why I post.

        Why are you here, if you are so happy with yourself and your the thing you allow your box to do.

        Before my wife cheated, I never posted on boards like this.

        You think it’s rude to say things like my wife allowed some strange to shoot cream pies into her box without a condom, thereby exposing me to Hep C, HiV, and all manner of other nasty STDS


        It’s a fact.

        Or, maybe your hostility about facts supports my point.

        That point being that cheaters are delusional. And delusional peeps are usually selfish and self absorbed when in their little fantasy world filled with fantasies, instead of facts.

        If you are having an affair pandora allowing some strange to shoot cream pies into your box.

        Trust me sweet pea. He doesn’t love you, he is just horny and you are an easy lay, much cheaper than a hooker.

        I look forward to your reply.

        I am sure it will contain more accusations about me being unreasonable and rude and cheaters being so noble and above being loyal or honest or even REALISTIC.

        Maybe when your husband throws you out, if you are a cheater, and you are 95 and dying alone in your cold bed, maybe then you will look back and realize how unrealistic cheating is.

        But, then, maybe not. Most cheaters are pathological narcissists and they think the rules simply do not apply to them

      • David January 29, 2013 at 7:46 pm #

        Pandora’s box.

        I forgot to add. If you are or were so miserable in your marriage and your spouse was soooooo selfish, why did you not file for divorce.

        If you live in the USA a divorce is really easy these days. An uncontested divorce is quite cheap, too. about $400 at most.

        C’mon, cheating is not right answer, it’s the selfish answer.

        • pandorabox January 30, 2013 at 7:49 am #

          I will address it in points.
          First C. If you insist that marriage is a work of both people and if it’s miserable people should leave, please explain to me why did your W W cheated? If It was miserable why didn’t you leave first, and if you didn’t notice it was, what kind of W were you.

          @D. There is no general rule, if you saying your M was perfect and she still cheated I’m tempted to understand your anger. But only you know if it’s true.
          On the rude subject, yes you are rude and vulgar but you already know it.

          Do I let stranger shoot…….. I’m not sure what makes 8 years old friend more stranger then a husband I knew for a year.

          And for your information I did wave a white flag and admitted the defeat after 21 years of my M. We aren’t together anymore and I’m getting the divorce.
          Do I feel shame, no but thank you, I’m perfectly fine.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 30, 2013 at 4:11 pm #

            Again. Complete ignorance. I was doing my best to work on my side of the marriage. No way was I perfect. But a good spouse. A faithful spouse. A good parent.
            I did not leave because I loved my spouse and under the presumption that we both had the mentality that we would weather any storm we faced together. Through thick. Through thin. Through good times. Through bad times. I am a friend you want in your corner when the chips fall. I am loyal. I am honest. I am a supporter/giver. I am a person of strength and integrity. My word is my bond. We had many happy times, hard times. But I am not a fair weather friend. I stick around during the hard times. I thought my spouse did too.
            The bottom fell out when I found out the truth. And I do not tolerate abuse. I do not tolerate being deceived, lied to, and having my health put at risk by the person I trusted and loved the most, and had a family with. Our children do not deserve this. I am their soft place to fall.
            Cheaters are not victims. People make a conscious choice to cheat. I had opportunities to cheat on my spouse, but NEVER, NEVER hurt my family and my spouse by taking my love, commitment, family money, and myself away and throw it on some partner poacher.
            Cheating exhibits narcissisism, selfishness, greed, lust, and lack of empathy for others. It exhibits weakness , disrespect for oneself and loved ones, cowardice, lack of control, morals, and character. All acted upon in a conscious manner.

          • David January 30, 2013 at 6:49 pm #


            If you read my reply to you. I already explained why my ex wife cheated.

            I already explained to you she wants back in an admits the marriage was a good one.

            She simply got horny for that first date feeling.

            All married people experience that. Its a sign of the marriage being in the companionate phase rather than the insanely passionate honeymoon phase.

            Mature people understand that and realize the marriage is normal not broken.

            Please read before you speak. And, think before you act.

          • David January 30, 2013 at 6:58 pm #


            BTW and to add.

            I never foolishly said the marriage was perfect.

            See that’s the problem with cheaters, they have this fantasy that there is some perfect guy or gal to marry out there and they will ride off into the sunset and have a perfect marriage.

            There is no perfect marriage. A marriage is a work in progress. It grows it changes. It doesn’t require work because loving someone shouldn’t be work, but it does require care and attention.

            Having and affair is not the way to tend to a marriage.

            It’s the cowards way out.

            It’s interesting you say you waved the white flag (of surrender) after 21 years of trying.

            Interesting terminology. It’s usually used to admit surrender in a war.

            Did you see your spouse as the enemy.

            If so, why the heck did you stay 21 years. Money? Insecurity? A nice lifetyle? Afraid of change?

  5. riskyPETE January 27, 2013 at 1:39 am #

    I gotta chime in here. I’m also a cheater, but wholeheartedly agree with BS being spewed by my fellow cheaters. Mostly women.

    Cheater women have have this warped sense of romanticism related to infidelity. They look at it in an escapist mentality. Men on the other hand, see it as an added bonus. A piece of ass….. that’s ALL.

    I plan on leaving my marriage soon, if not sooner if I get caught. And NO, I will not be staying with OW. Remember….. she’s just a meat puppet, as are ALL OW.

    Sorry ladies, but it’s the cold-hard truth. All of you are getting used by us OM. BELIEVE IT!!!

    • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 2:58 am #

      Everyone’s getting used. Some for affection, some for validation, some for sex. Some for all of it. Very few are looking for or finding their One True Love in their AP. Some of the OW have NO intention of winding up with their OM – they are great sex and companionship to those OW too! Majority of APs are just transitional relationships/ softer landings, anyways. OM and OW alike!

      • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 3:35 am #

        Don’t bother with monogamy tall girl.. You are truly a lost, screwed up person to understand respect, commitment, and a healthy reciprocity in a real relationship. Have fun with the revolving door. No one deserves to be cheated on… And you justifying in your mumbo jumbo bullshit will not convince me or anyone else that affairs are ok.
        Counseling IS available to all people no matter where they fall in the socioeconomic ladder. There are many places such as Catholic Charities, etc that provide mental health services for free or on a small pay scale.
        Enough with the excuses and “reasons” to defile marriage and family. Get the f*ck out of marriage before cheating occurs. Break the cycle of weakness and cowardice. For people that assume that divorce will hurt the children worse than cheating is incorrect. It is worse to LIVE in a broken home with two parents that show an unhealthy, loveless, disrespected sham of a marriage, than it does to come from a broken home where at least ONE parent is their soft place to fall, a hero, and solid role model to them..
        Religions and cultures also come down hard on adultery and many condone divorce after one party steps out in the other. So again, bullshit excuse for cheating…
        Enjoy using your house and marital bed for your lovers! Be sure you have have medical paperwork that all your partners are STD free.. And when your SO/spouse finds out about your cheating, lying ass have fun eating the shit you ordered!

        • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 3:50 am #

          Actually, I practice monogamy in my own life. I left my long-standing relationship because I knew where my friendship with MM was headed. I’m not a cheater, per se. I’m a participant but not a cheater. My MMs W is fairly aware of what her H is and has always been and chooses to stay for her own reasons. Just like MM chooses to stay for his.

          I’m also not married. I believe in open/honest marriages. My parents have a pretty great one, but they were the exception when I was growing up. Majority of my peer group in high school and college were children of divorce or unmarried single parents. Some grew up great, some didn’t. Their successes seemed to be attributed to be more about the cooperative involvement of their parents than their parents actions, excepting for the abusive situations – both emotional and physical.

          I get that you’re recently betrayed and have children. I can tell you’re dealing with the wake of that storm and are wading through all of the grief and hurt that come with that. Is this really the best place for you to be? I get that you need to vent and get your angries out, but is this helping you or hurting you?

          • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 4:17 am #

            Interesting background.. So you have not bounded over the line.. But flirted with it.
            I am making the point that affairs are selfish, disgusting, and deplorable. Whether or not I am a BS has nothing to do with the fact that affairs are wrong. They hurt people, rip families apart, and degrade society. They are overwhelmingly painful to all parties involved. Our society romanticizes affairs and make them look glamorous in movies, television shows, music, etc. Our culture is saturated with the message of affairs being so romantic. No. Affairs are messy, life-altering, and destroys many lives.
            I just completely disagree with your stance on affairs and the blog entry you wrote just brought the betrayal and travesty to marriage and family to a whole other level. Defiling your home and marital bed?
            If I can be a small voice of reason to others that read on this site by thinking through their actions before engaging in an affair, then it was worth it to me to comment. Are you ready to deal with the consequences once you get caught?

          • David January 28, 2013 at 5:04 pm #

            Tall girl:

            You said your not a cheater, but a participant because you are single but dating a married man.

            Well, honey boo, you are a cheater, you are cheating another family out of their spouse and father.

            You know that, I know that, and Pssssst God knows that or Allah or whichever God you worship.

      • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 3:43 am #

        tallgirl… That is bullshit, just go to the forums on this site and look at how these OW and OM want to be with this one true love.. Other man My Name Is Tom??? Wants his married AP to leave her hubby..
        OW on forums??? Being strung along by the cheater husbands…
        riskyPete has valid points on what cheater husbands are doing.. OM/OW don’t know what is going on at home.. How many cheating men that are bouncing their affair partner would go without sex at home if they know they can get it… They are often banging and using both.. Often times unprotected sex.. I don’t gave a shit if they say they are STD free… Ever hear if HPV?? Can cause cervical cancer. Not detectable in men.. Can be a carrier, and women often contract it without even knowing how or why…

        • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 3:59 am #

          Pretty familiar with HPV, as it’s likely most sexually active teen girls and women will be infected at some point in their sexual lives and it can go undetected in women until routine testing at age 30. You could be infected from a partner you had at 21 and not find out about it until age 28! But, it is also about as common as the cold, in terms of STIs, and typically goes away on its own unless it is one of the variant strains that can cause problems.

          This day an age, it should never be a case of someone saying they are STD free, but holding the proof of paper in their hands. Not everyone, even dating singles, practice it but they should.

          I’m also pretty familiar with the member make-up of the forum, and while there are several who are looking for their OTL, it is not the case for all. It’s kind of hard to call BS on me…when I’ve been on the forum for the last year and I’m guessing you have not. I may indeed have a better grasp of their stories than perhaps a newcomer?

    • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 3:19 am #

      RiskyPete, you just proved my point. Best thing for you? Chase all the tail you want.. Just not on your wife’s watch. She deserves better. After she finds out about your vile behavior, I hope she takes you for a ride in the divorce courts!

      • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 4:41 am #

        @Cheatersarecowards, replying here as the thread for commenting is impossible on our chain up above.

        Your BS background is only important in that it appears to be a fresh hurt. You’re more raw in the sense of a bull in a china shop than commenting to present a counterpoint. I just wonder if being on an infidelity site is only stirring the nest of pain in you further than actually helping you cope with the revelations of your WS/ex-WS affair? That’s all.

        Lots of things rip families apart. Am I to believe you’ll also be visiting gambling forums and making your case there against the gross expenditures of that populace? Or addictions… they also cause families to be ripped apart… going to join an AA/NA meeting and open all those eyes too? I’m sure I can dredge up an entire list of things that the Church/society would find vile, are you going to be the Joan of Arc that shows them all? Yes, a bit bitter I am. I was once just as fervent as you, is all.

        People have to find their way. Neither you nor I will change anyone’s minds if they are dead set on doing something. You might enlighten a potential cheater (and the majority of us on the forum try to talk people who are just thinking about it out of it) but it’s a bit hard to identify those sorts out n the world. Heck, some of them are leaders of our fine churches and legal institutions…

        I wrote my article from the point of neutral. I understand both sides of the coin. I know it’s a huge point of betrayal for most people. That’s why I wrote the article, to get everyone thinking about the deeper meaning behind he actions they undertake. I was actually expecting more discussion about the points raised in the article, and possible delving into the consequences and emotions one would feel as either a WS or a BS… to get at the root of why we all feel the way we feel about specific locations, specific dates, etc.

        • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 5:25 am #

          There are many situations that do rip families apart, alcoholism, domestic abuse, etc.. I made the point that cheating IS abuse. Themindf*cking, gaslighting, abandonment, etc.. can put the unsuspecting party in a tailspin. There might be very valid reasons a person feels alienated, abandoned, and desperate in a relationship/marriage. Cheating is never justified. I will reiterate again that NO person can drive or force another to cheat. They choose to do so. However, since this IS a forum regarding affairs, I simply responded to your comment to me regarding my comment to kentshakepeare.. We delved into our own debate regarding affairs.. If I hijacked the thread, I apologize.
          Defiling your home and marital bed is bringing the words “vile” and “sick” to another level of sociopathic behavior I cannot even fathom. Empathy, love, sacredness, and boundaries?? None whatsoever.
          I am in agreement with you tallgirl that there are different types of affairs as there are different types if cheaters.. Long term affairs, multiple affairs, hookers, online affairs, lost love affairs, emotional affairs.. All hurtful.. Some forgivable for some people, others no. None of them justified. All of them morally and ethically wrong on all counts. Many religions and cultured have commandments and laws (ancient) that spells out the wrongness of adultery..
          I love to debate same as the next person. I would rather be a bull in a china cabinet and present what is in store for the cheater (ready for the consequences and the bitter divorce?) than to dance around the issue…
          But maybe it is pointless.. After all, cheaters will cheat after all right? And cheaters that want to defile their homes will. It is a losing battle really. I wave the white flag in defeat.. Hell, what’s the point of standing up for principles, morality, and everything good? It is all outdated anyway!!

          • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 5:50 am #

            I don’t think it’s completely pointless. I think it serves a number of purposes, and every perspective from anyone touched by an affair is needed. Yeah, everyone needs to know consequences (and many of the married people here understand the consequences completely), but I just don’t see enough of the kind that you propose – I don’t hear enough about a BS or WS ending the M immediately. I don’t hear enough stories where an action equals a decisive reaction. It seems to take a great deal of time to arrive to the conclusion the train has derailed and is going nowhere. Again, that whole path thing.

            What I do read plenty about are people (both BS and WS) continually trying to work things out even when the hope is patently gone, when it’s obvious the connection is dead or a flagrant breach of “decency” has been made. That’s really depressing. I’d love to hear more people go “You know what, this is unacceptable” and take leave ASAP. It doesn’t happen enough. That’s a societal development, in my opinion. Where everyone gets an award for just showing up, you know? Where there are no reprimands, just “don’t do it again” x a billion.

            I have to say, outdated is a good word for things. Outdated is believing we’re all made for marriage – and some people get involved when they shouldn’t, or because they want a family but can’t have one without a marriage in their eyes, or because it’s expected of them, or whatever construct they deal with in their own psyche. Outdated is believing what was good 2000 odd years ago and handed down through multiple re-translations of dead languages (in some instances) will be applicable wholesale to the attitudes of today. We grow, we change. Who knows what partnering techniques will be considered the norm in a hundred year’s time. I sort of wish I’d be around to see it evolve, see where it all went.

            And it’d be great if the people who prefer/desire non-monogamy only fraternized with other non-monogamists and so on. Rules of attraction are pretty unfair, scientifically.

            I’d rather more BSes be bulls, honestly. I’d rather my MMs W be a bull, but she’s not. A lot of people aren’t. They aren’t even after the chips are down. Again, people will get there. With a lot of hurt on both sides, but it would have been there anyways, affair or not.

    • David January 28, 2013 at 5:00 pm #

      Risky Pete:

      Well, my wife’s affair partner left her cold.

      She’s living a lifestyle she hates because she thought the OM would leave his wife for her.

      My wife had a good marriage, but she got bored with married sex and got hot in the crotch over some guy and she lost all self control.

      Now she wants back in. She has to be kiddin’, cheaters are so delusional.

  6. Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 6:37 am #

    So is your married man unhappy in his marriage? What are his reasons for staying married if he is miserable? So his wife is aware of this friendship between you and he? Why is it important to you that she be the bull? Wouldn’t it be just as important that he be the bull? You’d know where you stand.
    There are many betrayed spouses out there that choose to leave immediately after cheating is discovered. Some kick the cheater out ASAP. Others, choose to give the cheater a chance for their own personal reasons. They think they are in reconciliation, only to discover it is false. When a person is being gaslighted, and mentally tossed around like a rag doll, the only thing you can trust is a cheater’s actions. Complete transparency. But then you are the Nazi Gestapo.. And that is not. A. Marriage. Some people hang on after DDay 45… Umm.. Time to leave was like ages ago. That is why I say, when a person cheats, the marriage is dead. The betrayed spouse once he/she kniws about infidelity, always lives with the fact the spouse cheated. Depending on the various circumstances regarding affair, some couples experience a true reconciliation. I am happy for them. But that is not the norm.

    • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 7:33 am #

      MM’s has been a self-admitted … I guess the best term is womanizer…since his younger years and his W was well aware of it even when they were dating. She still wanted to marry him! Other history occurred, they remained married for the stability of the kids. Their giving/loving marriage is quite over – separate lives for the most part (which he bemoans… but he did it to himself) but put up a united front for the kids. They don’t have an open marriage – she’s not giving the okay on the cheating but she’s also not leaving him despite knowledge of it, know what I mean?

      She’s aware of who I am and how often he and I are in contact. It is my belief she chooses to turn a blind eye at this point in time since the kids are still at home. He’s not leaving his marriage to be with me, and he doesn’t sacrifice family time to be with me, either. Pretty firm rule there, though it may seem silly. It’s one thing for him and his W to have a silent agreement, quite another for it to be in the face of the kids.

      It’s important to me that his wife be the bull because she’d be standing up for her own beliefs? We’re all of the same religious path and it’s not a one-sided vow break circumstance, is all. He’s plenty bull, but not to her. He can’t “be the man” – she’s in charge but not in charge… hard to explain. You’d really have to see the interaction between them. Very much mother with son, not loving partners. Not that she doesn’t have her reasons, and I only know the tip of the iceberg of that.

      I’ve always known where I stand with MM – he’s staying for the kids, is not looking to divorce any time soon. I like being single and entertain no notions nor wants of being with him full time. Our relationship isn’t solely sexual – we do more dates – going dutch to movies or museums. Taking hikes? Canoeing? Bowling, even. Lots of phone conversations about philosophy, religion, politics, music and whatever cornball hijinks people in the news get up to… a lot of it is friendship-centric, really. We started out as friends. Lonely and disenchanted friends, but friends.

      There’s a darker side to our relationship and it too is something that couldn’t be explored in his marriage – and that deals with possession, control, and a foray into total power exchange. Stems a bit from how out of control he feels in life – from his marriage, to his job, to his aging… it’s a long story. Still developing story, at that. He and I grew a lot of trust out of a life-or-death situation we dealt with, and we bonded hard as a result. We found in one another what we lacked and we made our own agreement. Was not entered into lightly at all.

      It’s not the clearest of affair pictures, but I’ve detailed a lot of my involvement with MM on the forums over the last year.

      I agree – the constant monitoring and the relentless double-checking of a WS is just no way to live. Transparency with a contrite spouse, sure, but it’s like you mentioned previously – people who want to will find a way to go underground. That’s if they are really checked out of their marriage, and that’s usually when that 2nd D-Day should really be a serve-you-with-papers day on both sides of the fence.

      Not always possible or desired, but ideally… ideally it’d be done.

      • David January 28, 2013 at 5:09 pm #


        It sounds as if you are hoping the OM will leave his wife for you.

        He won’t. You do know that right?

        Also, do you get a thrill out of doing it in the wife’s marital bed?

        Your blog makes it sound as if you would or did.

        Doncha think that’s kinda’ kook koo?

        • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 12:18 am #

          I wouldn’t want MM (or in fact any man currently) as a husband. I have absolutely no problem with our situation as it stands. Never operated under any delusion as to him leaving his family – he wouldn’t see me standing there with open arms if he did and he knows that.

          I don’t get a thrill out of having sex in their bed. I view it as a piece of furniture, just like my own bed. MM gets an thrill out of using their bed, but those are his feelings alone.

          I can understand why it seems bizarre, yes. One of the reasons for writing the blog topic – to see all sides, hear all viewpoints and examine why we feel how we do. To many it will be crazy and untenable, to some it will be titillating. To a few, it’ll be a non-issue.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 4:20 am #

            Your “relationship” with this married man is absolutely insane. And I agree with David on the fact that you want more. Hence your statement that you wished his wife to be the bull… You are not ok with set up and you are lying to yourself and to others when you say you don’t. This possession and control article you wrote is psychotic and clearly you and this married man have SERIOUS issues. You refuse to see it…
            I hear settling. I hear desparation. I hear no self- respect. I hear willing to accept crumbs. So sad, tallgirl. SO SAD. You talk about his wife having no balls. What about you? You can philosophize and spew out mumbo jumbo bullshit about some religious path all you want, but the fact remains this situation is ridiculous and you are a crumb eater. Bottom line, plain and simple. So sad.

          • David January 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm #


            So you think don’t get a conscious thrill out of doing it in the marital bed, but do it anyway.

            Does it turn you on that it turns your lover on, or does it disgust and repulse you.

            Because it would certainly disgust and repel me if I even learned that one of my men friends was doing the dirty in the marital bed, with some strange.

            Did you ever consider a hotel room?

  7. Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 8:04 am #

    Wow.. Quite a story tallgirl.. What I am in shock about is the unhealthy state this man is in and you that seem to be compromising what you really want in a person that can’t be with you full-time. He is a grown man tall girl. He can choose to leave that marriage anytime he wants. He is hiding behind his kids. Using you for emotional fulfillment (and sex?) and his wife to take care of him (and sex?)… Sounds like he is in spilt self affair.. He likes his setup… I will say this to you in a clear cut manner: You are not at their home to witness their day-to-day living.. Do you really know if they do not have sex with each other? How do you REALLY know? AP’s have no idea what the marriage is like behind closed doors. He could be giving you the classic sob story. Many cheaters have the same stupid stories they tell the AP, just like when the cheater gets caught they have stupid things to say to the betrayed as well.
    You mentioned your parents have a great and open, honest marriage. Sound like great role models for marriage/relationships to me.. Don’t you want to involved with a person that honors commitment? That doesn’t play the victim? No games? No mindf*cking? From articles and posts, you are well-versed, and I presume, well-educated. However, for the life of me, I can’t understand why YOU would wait around for that m*therf*cker. YOU be the bull and take charge of your life. Is this what you want? To be an emotional side dish? Putting blame on the wife? FACT , he is HER husband after all… He CHOOSES to stay in a marriage he SAYS us stale and horrible.. Hold his feet to fire… Do you honestly think he will man up, grow a pair, and leave?
    It must be so hard to have a real connection with someone and have everything seem so right… But tallgirl, when push comes to shove, you have to ask yourself what you are willing and not willing to accept… How do YOU want to be treated.. And this is the conclusion betrayeds come to.. Some right away, others later on.. But your married man or his wife are to blame for the choices you make. The life you choose to live. You are in control of that. Don’t you want a love based a reciprocity, respect, and commitment? This guy sounds like a weak clown to me… Sorry bull in china cabinet here! This is your life… Yes you will make mistakes (we all do). And you will pay for them (we all do)..

    • tallgirl January 27, 2013 at 3:46 pm #

      I have little issue with the half-time relationship I’m receiving from MM. I welcome it. I waited a long time for a single, fully available man who promised the world and didn’t deliver and held marriage and a ‘proper’ future over my head indefinitely. I’m tired of that game, now.

      We did therapy, we did retreats, we worked on our issues and at the end of it all, he dropped the ball when it mattered the most. You don’t want someone in your marriage who can’t be there for you in your darkest hours.

      I don’t want for the same commitments others do and I take full responsibility for my actions in my own life. I don’t blame MM nor his W for anything I undertake, but I do expect them to be accountable for their own decisions. They will need to own their own choices at some point.

      It’d be easy to say I’m just broken and I’d grow out of not wanting a marriage or a fully committed relationship, but it’s not likely at all. Note, this doesn’t mean I’m to make a habit of dating MM, it was this particular MM and this was the exception to it all. I’m finding my path and discovering the truth about my needs and wants along the way. An education at the cost of what? Well, at the cost of not much, considering the allowances being made to accommodate the affair by both of them.

      I know full well what the MM is. I know he’s having his cake and eating it too. I know far worse than that and I haven’t a problem with it because this entire affair is being sanctioned. But, why don’t I just walk? Because I don’t want to. There’s no need to walk away when someone’s carving it up on a plate for you and telling you to take a slice – both W and H alike.

      Connections come and go, marriages and relationships come and go. I enjoy the connection I have at this point in time with MM as he enjoys the connection at this point in time with me. I’m not holding a piece of paper over his head and demanding he stay – we’re around one another because we want to be. You won’t see me causing a scene or begging for him back – not my style. In fact, it’ll likely be the other way around due to his need for possession.

      • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

        Wow.. All sorts of screwed up… I am at a loss for words tallgirl.. What a psychotic way to exist..

        • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 4:48 am #

          @Cheatersarecowards, again, having to reply here due to comment thread limits… maybe more effective if you’d post to the forum? I could answer you better there.

          I don’t want more from MM. I can’t convince you or David or anyone else who is blinded by betrayal of that but I have always maintained that from day one. I know what he and I are. Never said ours was what most would call a healthy relationship. We wouldn’t work living together. We wouldn’t work married to one another. We work as we are an he and I both acknowledge that. That’s the only way we’d work. I know, bubble burst there, right?

          I’ve already been down the road of introspection on this affair. You aren’t saying a thing to me I didn’t roll around in my head a year and a half ago. Like I said, I used to be like you. I used to be very anti-cheating. I’ve been betrayed before. I changed. My views changed. My life changed. I grew up and stopped seeing everything as one or the other. I accepted my choices and I proceeded into the affair yes wide open with no expectations of together forever.

          Why do I wish his wife was a bull? Because it’d show she cared for her own happiness. It’d show she cared enough about herself that her H didn’t disrespect her openly – not just to myself, but his co-workers, his clients, his friends – you name it! She puts up with his infidelities! She doesn’t even have to but she does. It boggles my mind. Why stay with someone you know is going to keep on cheating until the day he dies? What kind of marriage is that for her? Is that why she keeps herself busy day in and day out with her own activities and career to get away from him?

          I know a lot of commenters won’t read through the forums for more, but his W is an amazing lady in her own right but she stays with a man who has never changed throughout their relationship. She walked into the marriage eyes wide open to his true nature and stayed. That’s depressing. That’s the sort of thing I’m supposed to respect? The willingness to commit to someone you know doesn’t respect the vows they take? I mean, really?

          You see crumbs in my relationship and I see both you and David left with crumbs from being honorable in yours. Sucks, doesn’t it? That we can’t just agree that we have different wants and needs and it’s okay to disagree on how we meet those needs?

          Mumbo jumbo, word salad, psychotic, sociopathic, narcissistic, etc – namecalling? It doesn’t hurt me. It doesn’t accurate depict me at all. So keep them coming if it helps you deal, but it does little in the way of furthering your cause of educating me about my self.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 5:01 am #

            Who knows her reasons for staying. But YOU certainly are NOT in the position to judge her considering what YOU settled for. You think you’re situation with this married man is “special” and “unique”? Really? Delusional much?
            You compromised your morals and values. Dignity and self-worth for a connection to a weakling clown if a man. Who knows what his wife’s story is.. But since you shared yours, it is all messed up. And the only people I feel sorry for in this scenario? Are this couple’s kids. I am heartbroken for them.

          • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 5:18 am #

            My relationship with him is neither special nor unique. Where did I ever allude that it was? I’m in a position to judge just as much as you are. Free will. I compromise in every relationship – it’s what a relationship is about. You can’t get your way all of the time. You have to adapt and grow. Their kids have already dealt with one of of his previous adventures, so – I think they’ve grown up just fine in retrospect. Like I said, there’s a lot of their history I’m privy to that was independently verifiable, and the kids saw it all play out long before I ever became his friend and eventual lover. I know, you were probably expecting I’d be the only homewrecker in their wonderful marriage – but you can thank his real One True Love for that stunning feat. Shame it was his wife’s best friend… and they even had a kid together.

          • David January 29, 2013 at 8:04 pm #


            Wow, you prove my point about cheaters being delusional in the way you lie to yourself, deny to yourself and twist the trust so exquisitely.

            You are a master. I bow to your superior ability to twist reality to fit your needs in the moment.

            I am not left with crumbs for being honorable.

            I feel good about it. My wife is getting the crumbs.

            But please spare us all the crapola that you care about the other man’s wife.

            If you cared, tall girl, you wouldn’t be boffing her husband. You would tell him to go home and work on his marriage.

            You aren’t even aware that your words here just scream that you wish she would kick him out so YOU could have him. Otherwise why even comment on it.

            Or wait, maybe you want to HURT the OM by having his wife leave him and come running to you so you can then tell him you don’t want him because for so long he has been showing you he doesn’t want you by staying with his wife.

            We all know that caring about the Other man’s wife’s well being is obviously not on your agenda.

            It doesn’t suck that my wife cheated, by the way.

            After the initial trauma a learning that my wife was not who I thought she was, It’s the best thing that every happened to me. I found a better woman, better in many ways than my wife.

            But really I am here to tell you it’s not the best thing that ever happened to her, and if you truly cared about the other woman or the other man, you would do the honorable thing, and stop opening your arms and legs to married men.

      • David January 28, 2013 at 5:14 pm #


        Why are you so willing to accept crumbs. You even seem to like the crumbs.

        Yes you are wounded. So get some empathy and stop wounding this man”s wife.

        Stop allowing this man to cheat. Break it off.

        Tell him cheating is for scumbags and it’s making you feel scummy.

        Besides sweetie, this guy could give you Hep C or HIV, he sounds like a sociopath.

        Run honey, run, go find yourself with a man that has a pair O’ nuts and some integrity.

        Unless you enjoy the perversion of being fed only crumbs, run, sweetie.

        • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 12:13 am #

          I enjoy the perversion, yes. I wouldn’t be with him if I didn’t. That others consider it lesser than I should accept, I could say the same about many a relationship, married or otherwise. We all take the consequences for our actions.

          I do have a problem with placing sole blame “Stop allowing this man to cheat”… with what am I forcing him to cheat? A gun? Please, he chooses to cheat. Ownership of actions, remember?

          I won’t debate his integrity nor his scrotal fortitude, but he’s only as flawed as any of us are. Some work on them, some don’t. I will debate his propensity for STDs, as we get tested regularly and together. In fact, even married or committed couples should run a check together, because some illnesses can pop up years onwards with little to no symptoms.

          It would also be great if you could not use the terms sweetie, honey, etc. Just tallgirl, thanks.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 4:34 am #

            Wait… You are offended David called you, “sweetie” and “honey” in his replies to you? Yet not offended by a person that treats you like the shit side dish you are??? Laughing!!!
            Clearly, tallgirl, you have SERIOUS issues. I am still completely stunned what you have settled for.. And what OW/OM settle for. How much you sacrifice for so little in return. Yet, you LIKE being a crumb eater. You like the perversion? March your little fanny over to a good therapist ASAP.. You got problems girl!!

          • David January 29, 2013 at 8:08 pm #


            I am glad you are at least honest about your perversion. I am surprised you admit to that.

            As for the two of you being safe from STDs because you get checked periodically.

            Well then obviously you do not understand the limits of STDs and testing.

            Anyway two cheater trusting each other to be free of STDs is just another show of how delusional cheaters are.

            As for two faithful people being checked periodical, more delusion.

            I guess if you were married and after 25 years you decide to cheat you would try to tell your husband that it was some STD you caught 25 years ago, that just conveniently never showed up on any test prior or never showed any signs or symptoms.

            Oh brother, can you spell DELUSIONAL or DECEPTIVE.

  8. Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 8:07 am #

    *But your married man or his wife are NOT to be blamed for the choices you make. The life you choose to live.

    • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 4:56 am #

      I’m bothered by anyone who does not personally know me calling me pet names, yes. I stood up for my wants. What, I’m supposed to let any stranger call me terms of endearment? I’m afraid not. I take issue with patronizing behavior, yes.

      Again, settling… I’m not settling. I’ll never get you to see my side, but that’s only because you don’t wish to empathize with me. I can empathize with you, but the reverse is certainly not true.

      Do you see how I am not stooping to the same treatment you both have – with calling me names? I could. Yet I choose not to. Funny how the horrible side-dish is treating you both with more respect than you’re treating her. You’d think if I was so darn psycho, I’d be up a wall with cruelty. And yet, I’m not. Just have a think on that. Why am I so polite to people who are not as polite to me?

      • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 5:16 am #

        tallgirl, how am I treating you with disrespect? I am simply calling a spade, a spade. You are letting this man treat you like a side dish.. You have let yourself become a shit side dish. That is so, so sad..
        In our discussion here? There certainly has been respect shown all around. I completely disagree with your opinion on marriage, relationships, life philosophy, religion, your morals, your values, and I am certainly not going to blow smoke up your bum either. I will call you out on your lousy arguments. But as far as disrespecting you? No. You have disrespected yourself. And we can go round and round for the next 100 years debating your life choices. That is not why I am here commenting. I am commenting to because others who read this just might come to the conclusion that cheating is not worth it. Being involved in an affair is not worth it. Living authentically is not worth it. Going against your value system is not worth it. Betraying you family is not worth it.

        • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 5:28 am #

          Namecalling is disrespect, not calling a spade a spade – as I’ve not shied away at all about talking honestly about this entire subject nor my own history with the MM. I’d prefer it if we stuck to the topic of my post. We can take all this dissection of my choices and self worth to the forum.

          Or does the thought of dishing it out to me truthfully in front of a bunch of people engaging in the same behaviors as I feel a bit scary?

          You’re here commenting to flagellate me – especially by calling me those terms above and that I’m just a shit side dish – there’s anger in those terms, not education. You’re educating no one about the horrors of cheating by your demeanor towards me. Want to educate? Go to the forum. Educate us all! More views on the forum that my blog post. You can really sink it to them there!

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 5:53 am #

            Again.. We got into our own discussion based on your comment to me that I had addressed to kentshakepeare.
            Are you a leading lady? No. The main event? No. In an honorable committed relationship? No. So….. You settled for crumbs in a lame half-time “relationship” and like it. You have a connection like no other.. you can talk about anything.. you have been tjere for each other in your darkest hour… And yet, after he rolls off you, he goes home to his wife and family. Then when the kiddies are asleep rolls on top of his wifefor a romp… Bonus for him! But your time with him is special.. But hey… can’t call what you have let yourself become— a shit side dish?? Why not?? That IS in fact what it you have LET yourself become.. Sorry if you find it offensive… I find lack of morals offensive, I find cheating offensive, I find lying offensive.. I find abuse offensive. If she does not know the FULL extent of what you two are doing, than shame on the both of you.. Tell her the truth. If she does know, then it is her business if she stays and his business too. They are the married. Do I agree with it??? Hell no. I would tell her to leave ASAP.
            Cheating is abuse. I really don’t know what his wife’s story is… But yours is off the charts crazy!!!!
            And you have the gall to judge his wife?? Please!

        • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 7:57 pm #


      • David January 29, 2013 at 8:18 pm #


        Honey, your insults are the passive aggressive variety.

        Not the honest forthright variety.

        See this is the delusion I speak of. You see everyone’s faults but your own. You think you are perfect and have it all figured out.

        Everyone else is nutty and you are sooooo together.

        May I suggest therapy to address that passive aggression.

        Personally, I would rather have someone call me a moron than to use some deceptive phraseology that appears to sound intellectual and kind and caring, when in reality it is really a put down.

        At least with someone who outright calls me a moron, I know where I stand and I respect them for their honesty.

        I respect you for admitting for example that you like the perversion of the affair. That is at least honest.

        I lost respect for you again, though, when you tried to convince the readers that you actually care about the other man’s wife because she’s being emotionally abused by her husband and you wish she would stand up for herself.

        C’mon. You know you could care less about this woman other than it annoys you that the other man likely spends holidays with her.

  9. terribleperson January 27, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    Marital bed I feel is off limits. Isn’t there another bed or piece of furniture in the whole entire house you can use?
    I get the idea that in some relationships this might actually be a turn on.
    My bf and I just use the spare bed, couch, shower, floor, kitchen….the only thing off limits is the marital bed.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 27, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

      Still defiling your home.. Pretty sick and sociopathic.

  10. terribleperson January 28, 2013 at 8:00 am #

    Yeah well it wasn’t getting used any other way.

    • David January 28, 2013 at 5:16 pm #

      Well than, terrible person…..why not grow a pair and file for divorce.

      Then you can split up the furniture and use it for what evah you want.

      Why stay in a sexless marriage. Get help to fix it or get out.

      • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 12:35 am #

        @ David, responding here as the reply thread above had been cut short:

        I’m not cheating his wife out of anything she isn’t willingly giving.. His W is very aware of me, and as long as it is not in her face nor disturbs the kids, she’s blind-eyeing it. He doesn’t take time away from the family to attend to this affair and he doesn’t use family money to spend it on me.

        The majority of this affair he engages in with me is not about meeting sexual needs or orgasms at all. I spend time with him. We were friends first, after all. I can count the number of times we’ve had sex, but our meetups to just go to a movie, walk around parks, or do some other activity – too numerous. He calls on the phone just to talk about work, or his kids, or a book he’s read – he is getting emotional needs met moreso than sexual needs. Well, and psychological needs, but I won’t try to explore that too far in a comment.

        Sex is easy to get if that’s all one wants. A connection? Well, people tend to have affairs more for that than anything else. Even men.

        If your wife was off getting some strange, what was the catalyst for that in your marriage? Was this a long standing behavior of hers or was this garden variety neglect of both parties in a longterm marriage where everything got held off until it broke the two of you apart?

        • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 4:23 am #

          Split self affair… Classic.

          • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 5:08 am #

            So, was your husband a split-self affair guy, too?I’m curious, because it’s obvious you’ve had enough therapy to be able to put a label on things. I’m glad you’re rid of him. I’m glad you were a bull.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 5:34 am #

            To be honest with you tallgirl girl, I do not know what type of affair my spouse (not for long), engaged in and I believe now the spouse had more than one affair. I do not tolerate cheating. I do not tolerate being lied to. I do not tolerate abuse.
            I would say in your case, if the wife is fully aware of you (and his other AP’s?) then they have an open marriage. Very different than the lying and sneaking around.

          • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 6:16 am #

            Again, the majority of my time spent with him is not sexual at all. I can count on my fingers and toes how many times we’ve had sex, but we’ve done so many non-sexual “hang out and do activity” dates I’d lose count. Yes, we have sex, but it’s not the raison d’être. The bigger part of the relationship is cerebral. Emotional. And that’s from his insistence. I was the one who wanted just sex in the beginning, oddly enough.

            The life or death thing was a big deal to me, actually. I’m grateful to his friendship (and only friendship) during that time. He was there for me when everyone else ran for the hills because of the stress of a loved one dying in one of the worst ways possible. Painfully. Without a timetable of an end. Take a wild guess who took care of that loved one around the clock until their last breath? Bingo.

            I’m okay with not being a primary partner. That’s my choice. I’m okay with my choice. It’s a bit of a non-issue at this point.

        • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 4:53 am #

          Ummm… Fact. Cheaters cheat even when they are in happy marriages.. Not all cheating happens in marriages that are stale, unhappy, or long term.

          • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 5:03 am #

            So, the fact that wives often cheat due to emotional neglect has no bearing in your case? Interesting. She was really happy in your marriage and just had to have more orgasms?

            Did you two have children? If so, did they stay with you or go to live with her? Were you in an area that enforces spousal support?

            I’m interested because the bitterness you display over your wife suggests a deep love for her (without love there cannot be hate), and that love could tempt you to take her back in a moment of weakness. Don’t. It’s best that you don’t. If you really believe she was only out for the sex, then she’d seek outwards again. If she was out for emotional support, then you could actually work that one out.

          • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 5:55 am #

            Replying here again due to threading –

            I’d not call it an open marriage. Tolerating affairs is one thing, but they don’t live openly, and this goes into something that reaches even into the religious leaning – little hard to stomach someone also abusing that whole deal every week…again, can’t cast stones but I practice not to receive until I can without disagreeing with the rules so…

            Open marriage would mean unrestricted access. I’ve known couples in open, polygamous (and honest!) marriages. This is nonesuch. It’s a variant, but without the honest part. It’s not like he went home and said “Honey, I found a woman I want emotional and sexual time with, cool?”.

            Sometimes it’s a little unfortunate just how much I do know about their marriage. I’m hardly a fly on the wall, but despite not running in the same circles, we know a lot of the same people (and I’ve met some of his family and friends while we are in the affair)… it’s just. It’s interesting. Interesting what people have said and the stories they’ve related. And it’s all strangely verifiable. That’s what gets me, it’s not like he sob-stories me, it was all out there already. Friendship only confirmed things.

            I’m actually sorry to hear that it was a not just a once and done but a multiple situation for you. I’m really glad you’re getting out of the marriage. I’m glad you aren’t tolerant of the behavior and are letting him know that by your actions. Actions always speak louder than words.

          • David January 29, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

            tallgirl said:

            {“I’m interested because the bitterness you display over your wife suggests a deep love for her (without love there cannot be hate), and that love could tempt you to take her back in a moment of weakness.”}

            Tallgirl, my bitterness is actually directed at people like you.

            People who prey on others who may be going through a rough patch in a long term marriage that s experiencing the normal ups and downs of life.

            I nether love nor hate my ex wife at this point. I do feel sorry for her though and I hate the fact that now, after two DDays she is begging to try again to work things out and taking full responsibility and admitting that she was just horny.

            She was also emotionally involved with this guy, too.

            You don’t get naked with someone without some emotion unless you are a total psychopath.

            My ex wife may be a lot of things but I wouldn’t say she is a psychopath. She just selfish and self focused. In retrospect I now realize she always was.

            Tallgirl said { “Don’t. It’s best that you don’t. If you really believe she was only out for the sex, then she’d seek outwards again. If she was out for emotional support, then you could actually work that one out.”]

            That’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if it was an emotional or sexual affair, it took time and energy away from her family.

            But again, I am so glad you are confident that you have all the answers.

            Tallgirl with reference to your claim that without love their can’t be hate. I know that is a poetic man made claim.

            I don’t buy it, though. Love and hate are similar only in the fact that they are both very strong emotions, nothing more.

            You can definitely hate someone you don’t love.

            I think we see that every day in the world. Extremist who kill other who do not agree with their tenets are a good example.

            They admit that they hate the infidels, so by your logic that means they really love them, so they do things like saw of the heads of their captures.

            See that’s another example of twisted logic.

            Or maybe it’s worse than that because believing that all forms of hatred is really love is very scary.

            But, it could be used to justify an affair in some twisted way.

            For example, I love you, I was only trying to get your attention so that is why i hurt you by spreading my legs for some strange and them coming home to have sex with you.

            Spare me the amateur psychology.

        • David January 29, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

          You said she turns a blind eye.

          I guess your lover told you that, right?

          You said, he isn’t taking time away from his family for the affair. What? Of course he is. You know that.

          You said, he isn’t spending family money to finance the affair. Again, are you kidding me.

          In a marriage all money is family money.

          See this is what I mean when I say people having affairs are delusional. They live in the affair bubble world where the normal morals, rules or etiquette don’t apply.

          Pull up you big girl panties, and tell this Other man to take a walk.

          And, if you really care about the wife’s well being, tell him to go home and put ALL his energy back into his children and family.

        • David January 29, 2013 at 8:42 pm #

          Tall girl asks: [ “If your wife was off getting some strange, what was the catalyst for that in your marriage? Was this a long standing behavior of hers or was this garden variety neglect of both parties in a longterm marriage where everything got held off until it broke the two of you apart?”]

          The catalyst was she was hot in the crotch.

          By her own admission she said she missed the first date feeling.

          So, I guess like most cheaters she convince herself that it was OKAY to DATE another man while married.

          What she didn’t count on was getting caught the first time, and then the second time again.

          The first time I found out by accident.

          Oooops! The second time the detective caught her with her pants down.

          Now that I have met a good women, she wants to work on the marriage SHE neglected so she could spread her legs for some slob that dropped her like a used condom when I filed for divorce.

          She now claims I am the love of her life and that nothing was wrong with the marriage other than she was bored with the routine of married sex.

          She claims she will never find anyone to protect her the way I did and never find someone she can trust the way she trusted me.

          The problem is I STOPPED TRUSTING HER, after finding out that she was giving me sloppy seconds after getting screwed by her loser Other man.

          Well, now she no longer needs to worry about the routine of married sex because she is single and living alone. Just like you.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 28, 2013 at 7:45 pm #

      Why is that? Does he have medical problems that makes it impossible for him to get it up? Is he paralyzed?

  11. Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 6:05 am #

    Oh tallgirl… You are sacrificing so much for so little in return. I am so saddened for you .. You deserve so much better. Everyone does. Where is your backbone? Where is your self-worth?? Why are you wasting your time on this insane situation?
    There are SO MANY other people you could have an amazing, deep, real, honorable connection with… And yet you are wrapped up in this crazy sorry excuse if a man. I am sad for you.. You are the face if so many women, so many men (other persons), searching for something.. Fill a void. An emptiness.. Only to find the emptiness grows wider. The article you wrote on possession and control is creepy and frightening. Very unhealthy.
    How can you find true happiness in a relationship that undermines you as a woman? Undermines your mind, body, and soul? It will erode you over time. You will be a mere shadow of the vibrant woman you once were. And for what??
    Oh my lord!!

    • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 6:35 am #

      I’m not sacrificing anything more than I would in any other relationship, though? I wish I was joking. He’s getting treated to the same woman that stuck it out through long term relationships and engagements with previous partners. The only difference is that unlike those previous partnerships, I know the finite ability of this relationship.

      I’m probably not the same face as many people in affairs. I’m finding my own happiness, even within the possessive and controlling realm. See, for all of my life, I’ve had to be the one in control. The one responsible for everything. The caretaker, the Rolodex, the manager. I enjoy it to an extent, but with MM? I get to just be me. All my warts, all my fears, all my joys, all the things that other partners would want to change about me or say was gross to even fantasize about. As crazy as it may sound to an outsider, I finally feel free to be all of me to someone.

      Some people can get that in healthier relationships, sure. But this is the first time I’ve ever had that. Can you see how I might want to know what that’s like, in any context it come in? That the very freedom is aiding me, helping me, bettering me?

      Yes, it’s not for everyone. But it is my path! It’s my choice to be here! Not being forced in any way. Not being cloyed with the grand romance. Not under any delusion as to what the likely end will be!

      And I’m fine with that. Like I’ve mentioned elsewhere… I’d still be in a part-time relationship with a single, fully available man as that part-time relationship style is what I desire at this stage in my life. I lived the full-time relationship life already. The deep, real , honorable connection I had with a fully available single man who wanted to marry me? He was a fraud. Dangled marriage for years with no intention of ever following through – and we never had pre-marital sex because he didn’t believe in it! And much like a divorce, property had to be split up, finances re-managed and I swore I’d never do that waiting game again.

      So I keep myself single, for now. I see MM, for now. This is how I am most content, for now.

      • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

        Bettering you? More like battering you…
        What is your age tallgirl?
        Why did you stick around with the first guy on an empty promise of marriage? Sounds like this guy either was extremely smart not to marry you… Or immature, and not a lot of life experience. Why did you wait around?
        IMO it is the former..

        • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

          Anyway. This situation is really bizarre, no doubt. Good luck to you all the same.. You are going to need it.

        • tallgirl January 29, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

          I’m in my 30s. I was my ex’s first adult relationship, whereas I’d been in a few other long term ones and was once engaged. I stuck around helping him grow, put him through school, helped him get his first career-oriented job, and gave him all the time he asked for in regards to marriage – No pressuring until we started looking at houses, essentially. I was very respectful of his lack of sexual experience and never pushed him on it because I respected his choice. He was even nervous kissing, and still I stayed because of the affection I held for him and the promise of the future we were building together.

          I stuck around so long because we were great friends. He promised the intimacy would catch up when we married. Then he said he was afraid of ever having intimacy, but he still wanted to marry me. And then he said he didn’t know when he wanted to marry at all – but he still wanted the benefit of my constant companionship and live together and build a life.

          And that was one of the final straws. That combined with him not being there for me during the tragedy that he was fully aware of and involved in…it broke what little love I still had left. I broke up with him because the relationship was dead. The friendship remained, but the relationship was gone.

          Luckily, we were still able to remain friends after a short period of NC and working our angries out. The only thing he regrets is that I’m not still there to take care of him day-to-day.

          If I felt battered, I wouldn’t be involved with MM.

          Good luck to all of us, we’re all going to need it.

          • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 3:38 pm #

            I am so sorry tallgirl. That is terrible. Yes, we all need luck and help. No doubt.
            I just want to reiterate that I am not here to take you to task on whatever personal choices you make. You will live out the good and bad of that.
            I am here to say that cheating is never justified. Never.
            It has been interesting discussing these issues with you, but we will have to agree to disagree.

      • David January 29, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

        Tallgirl said:

        [“The deep, real , honorable connection I had with a fully available single man who wanted to marry me? He was a fraud. Dangled marriage for years with no intention of ever following through – and we never had pre-marital sex because he didn’t believe in it! And much like a divorce, property had to be split up, finances re-managed and I swore I’d never do that waiting game again.”]

        Well, you are damaged, I knew it. Someone caused you great harm and you never recovered.

        You deserve better, Tallgirl. You can likely find someone who is honorable and won’t hurt you.

        You have simply closed yourself off to those people because of the bitterness you tasted in this fraudulent relationship you describe.

        Don’t let the fraud win. Go out and find someone you deserve.

        There are good loyal real people out there.

        Go forth and find one tall girl.

        Because in the end you ARE DOING THAT WAITING GAME AGAIN with the other man.

        You think you are in control, but he is. Every time he makes a booty call.

        He likely doesn’t have sex that often too because he’s older and satiated by the sex he had with his wife, just before he went to meet you.

        Why does this man need a girlfreind to talk to if he is married.

        Why not have a male friend to talk to, like I do.

        No spouse can be all things to a person, that is why we have same sex friends.

        But dating while married is wrong, Period.

  12. Changed January 29, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    The marital bed is a place of bonding as a husband and wife. If you have kids it is also a place a couple has soothed a crying baby and comforted a scared or sick child. It then becomes a place where you bonded in a different respect as parents caring for your child. If my S had chosen to disrespect our bond in our home in the very bed I slept with my S in – game over.

    When you are betrayed you form images in your mind of your S with the other person. It’s true- as details come out your mind takes you to seeing exactly what you can’t bare to see. You picture what your S looked like having sex with their AP in all the gory details. Far worse if it’s someone you know. If that isn’t bad enough if it happened in your own bed that’s where your mind pictures it. In the very space you slept in with the S night after night, in the very space you bonded with your spouse. There’s no going back after that, the images haunt.

    For me it’s difficult to understand the person who gets “turned on” having sex with another in their marital bed. If a S gets excited violating their partners personal space on the deepest level and disrespecting them to that degree. It shows a lack of any regard for their feelings what so ever and additionally a thrill in disregarding their feelings. If one feels that way about their spouse, why in the world stay married to them.

    -Tallgirl seems to be on trial her for her choices AND the choices of grown man. She is not responsible for his choice to cheat. It’s interesting that she is questioned on her ability to accept and be satified in the R with her MM. (settling for crumbs). Not everyone defines a R the same way, not everyone needs the same things from a R. She chooses the R she is in, she helps define it just because it fills her needs does not mean she is dysfunctional or settling for less, it simply is her choice.

    -Several of the posts above seek to condemn not understand and offer a different perspective, much of what is posted above is not pertinent to the topic at hand. Explaining the feeling tied to the marital bed and the hurt and disrespect associated with the act would seemingly be more effective in making one think twice about what they are participating in. When one lashes out with name calling and personal attacks the message would appear to be lost.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

      Hi Changed,
      Well said comment regarding article. TG and myself have run off topic most definitely since delving in the discussion. TG shared her story. She shared her views on marriage, relationships, and the whatever-it-is with the married man she is involved with. She certainly did not make this guy cheat. As I stated earlier: the CHEATER CHOOSES to cheat. If he is not cheating with tallgirl it will be with someone else. She judges the wife for her lack of balls.. But yet, I see the same in her..
      She is not on trial. And I certainly am not disrespecting her in any way. She settled for crumbs and likes it. That is what I understand now. She is a grown up and if that is what she wants? Feast away!
      But to justify cheating? No. I will call anyone out on that bullcrap. And that is why I delved in the discussion. Cheaters are not victims. They actively choose to lie, cheat, and steal. And AP’s?? If they are aware the person is married with family yet they actively get/stay involved with married/taken persons? Shame on them too. Partner poachers. But ultimately, the accountability and responsibility of the betrayal lies upon on the cheating spouse/SO.

  13. pandorabox January 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    I don’t understand why do you try go make all the people be same. Why do we all need to be in marriage to be fulfilled. I understand you do but TG doesn’t.
    I’m getting the D and have NO intention whatsoever to get another man in my house.
    Yet I intend to have fulfilling relationship.
    I get friendship, emotional support, admiration and yes , great orgasms too.
    What I don’t get and don’t want to is someone making decisions in my life, man snoring in my bed, washing his underwear, cleaning after him.
    I’m a big girl. I can take care of myself, provide for myself and the kids and I don’t need man to stick with me forever. Been there, done that, wasn’t worth it or fulfilling at all.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 3:24 pm #

      Who said anything about everyone having to be married for fulfillment? I didn’t. Good for you, pandorabox that you realize that. Not everyone is meant to be married. Who wants to be in a sham of a marriage? Not me. I would rather be happy and healthy alone than sick, unhappy and half-crazy with a person I only call my spouse, but don’t really have one in that person.

    • David January 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

      Well Pandora

      I am glad to here you will divorce and plan to stay single.

      I have no issue with someone who stays single and prefers to boff a different man every night if they like.

      I do have issues with married people who cheat and dysfunctional people who date married cheaters.

      • Cheatersarecowards January 29, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

        I read your replies and want to say I am so, so sorry that you have been betrayed. The overwhelming pain and grief and staggering. I am a betrayed as well. I am so happy to hear you did not take your lying, cheating wife back for a third time. She is a bitch through and through. I am happy to hear you have rebuilt your life and in a healthy relationship with a good woman. I am rebuilding myself.
        Love reading your comments and replies. Well said. You are a straight shooter, and a “tell it like it is” person. I respect that greatly. To me, tallgirl is more like a call girl, and I completely agree that cheaters/ AP are extremely delusional and out of touch with reality. She is definitely damaged from her previous relationship.. And unfortunately swallowed the bitter pill. Perhaps issues with her picking ability? Amongst other self-worth issues. No matter how intelligently she strings words and thoughts together… Her logic and ethics are completely flawed. As are all cheaters and APs. Sorry. You can’t justify abuse. Period.
        Good luck in all your endeavors David.

        • David January 30, 2013 at 7:13 pm #

          Cheaters are cowards:

          Thank you for the kind words.

          I am sorry to hear you are a betrayed spouse to, but in the end I think you will find a better man. They are out there.

          None of my close men friends cheat. They are out there. These men are attractive and financially successful, too.

          The worst part for me about this divorce now, is that my ex wife is so pathetic.

          She now wants to work things out but seems to fail to realize the extent of the damage she caused and that going back is never a possibility.

          I loved her once and in many ways I still care about her well being.

          The whole thing just makes me so sad.

          I wanted to grow old with her until I realize that the she was not the person I thought she was, not while cheating and probably ever.

      • pandorabox January 30, 2013 at 8:00 am #

        You really have issues David which you should deal with. One W with bigger sexual libido then yours doesn’t mean that all women are the same. You happy I’m divorcing but you can’t avoid to accuse me in passive aggressive way of being a slut in the same sentence lol
        I intend to stay single, raise my kids, put them through college and bang the same mm.

        • Cheatersarecowards January 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm #

          If the shoe fits….. You know the rest..

        • David January 30, 2013 at 7:18 pm #


          Your box can’t speak for all wives

          Most cheating wives do not have a high libido. They are just horny for that first date feeling.

          There is a huge difference between having high desire, and feeling that random first date horniness and then acting on it by having an affair.

          All cheaters are passive aggressive. Cheating is a passive aggressive act of emotional abuse.
          We all miss that first date feeling in a long term marriage.

          Mature people however realize it’s normal and they honor their marriage vows, anyway.

          Pandora, it’s called integrity.

        • David January 30, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

          Pandora requested: [ I’m divorcing but you can’t avoid to accuse me in passive aggressive way of being a slut in the same sentence lol]


          I was simply complying with your stated request to be less vulgar, if you prefer madam I will tell you what i think of people who cheat.

          People who cheat, male or female, are SLUTS. Just honoring your request to call a spade a spade. Hope you don’t get angry again

  14. Depannage informatique a domicile Paris January 31, 2013 at 4:05 am #

    hello!,I love your writing so much! percentage we keep up a correspondence extra approximately your article on AOL? I need an expert on this house to unravel my problem. Maybe that is you! Having a look ahead to peer you.

  15. terrible person January 31, 2013 at 9:23 am #

    {David :Most cheating wives do not have a high libido. They are just horny for that first date feeling.

    There is a huge difference between having high desire, and feeling that random first date horniness and then acting on it by having an affair.}

    While I will say I may have a higher libido than most, I was not just horny for that first date feeling. I was horny period. When you are rejected for years and years without any explanation, you start to seek out unhealthy things. I’m not arguing with that fact. I went right back to the guy I was with before I got married.
    And I tell my husband all the time that if he thinks I went all those years without sex, then he is delusional. He doesn’t believe me because he said nobody else would ever want me either.

    • Cheatersarecowards January 31, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

      Sounds like an abusive man.. Hope you leave him’

    • Cheatersarecowards January 31, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

      But cheating, lying, and deceiving him to get your jollies is not the answer either. That too is abusive.

      • terrible person January 31, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

        I’m not disagreeing with that. I do plan on divorcing eventually. But I haven’t hidden anything from him either. I tell him when I’m seeing my friend or he’ll ask and I’ve never lied about it. He just doesn’t believe me.

        • Cheatersarecowards January 31, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

          If you are open and honest with him about it? Then he is aware and does not care. Hope you get out soon. That is not living. That is existing. So much more to life than being with someone that is unhealthy.
          You deserve more. And I hope you are someone that does not stay out of convenience. It just is not worth it.

        • David February 1, 2013 at 6:05 pm #

          Terrible Person

          If you have apprised your husband of your cheating, than it’s not really cheating, it’s an open marriage.

          I think he believes you, he just doesn’t want lose you so he pretends he doesn’t think you are cheating.

          Am I wrong to assume he has some type of sexual dysfunction.

          If so, he has a medical condition, and IMO, marriage is in sickness and in health.

          If he is abusing you, leave.

          Let me ask this: If you found out he is having an affair and that is why he is not interested in sex, how would you feel? Would you think it is okay?

  16. kentshakespeare February 3, 2013 at 12:04 am #

    I am very impressed by the extreme level of mind-reading and absolutist moral judgments contained in these exchanges.

    It must be very hard to breathe with your noses so high up on that soapbox upon soapbox piled on top of that high horse.


    I’m so glad you’ve removed the speck from my eye, tallgirl’s eye, and pandora’s eye. Thank you. Now maybe you might want to try pulling those planks wedged in your own eyes.

  17. David February 7, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

    It amazes me how Cheaters who are basically people who are either too oversexed to only have sex with one person, are too dishonorable to keep their marriage vows, to cowardly or cheap or insecure to negotiate a divorced lie to their loved ones, deceive their love ones, take marital funds or (steal) from the loyal spouse, can still defend themselves so self righteously.

    I do see by the posts that blame shifting and projecting seem to be really obvious negative traits of cheaters among a slew of many other negative traits.

    Has anyone else noticed the blameshiftng and projections?

    It’s not about morality, it’s about integrity. There is a difference. Look it up. ;)

  18. The Queen February 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

    Wow. All I can say is wow. I am floored by the blame-shifting and projecting here by the affair partners and cheaters. David, I must say you hit the nail on the head! I give you and CAC a round of applause on your counter-arguments. CAC, you also hit the nail on the head that cheating on a spouse/partner is abuse. Well said. And that should never be defended in any way. Why don’t more people address that? It is a serious issue that is certainly overlooked.

  19. Yesenia June 3, 2013 at 4:15 am #

    I have had sex with my Affair Partner in his marital bed and it did not “turn me on” in any additional way.
    it doesn’t bother me at all either.
    We are both married, neither of us get the physical stuff we need at home.
    There is one difference, I am just fine with my husband but my Affair Partner is extremely unhappy in his marriage.
    This concerns me as there have been times when I wondered if he was being so bold on purpose, taking what I considered to be real risks to getting busted…… a “suicide by Cop” sort of thing.
    I really care for my AP and would love to see him rid of the wife but he better not leave her for me!
    As a matter of fact, his wife was married and cheating with him and ultimately left her husband for him………..13 years later she’s still his and I know he wishes she wasn’t.
    But I’m getting off the subject here………
    To me it doesn’t matter if it’s in the “marital bed”, the sofa, or even a hotel room. The fact is that the cheating partner is cheating.

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